Is This Recent Sale A Sign Of Ignorance, Manipulation, Or A Bull Market?

Hulk 180 is the first appearance of Wolverine.
• He's shown in his entirety, in costume.
• He speaks several lines of dialogue.
• He self-identifies as "The Wolverine" in his speech.
• He's referred to in the captions.

If that doesn't constitute an appearance, then nothing does.

• Frank Brusque
  
  Ahh a future column for this topic but here is what I believe. As an attorney those that filed an appearance were central to the case and would be presenting something that was important There were other attorneys that were in court sitting at my table, but did not file an appearance because they were not going to have any real interactions with the court. Then when I was an actor and have since interviewed them they classified a cameo as a brief participation in a film/play/tv show where the actor makes a few lines, is identifiable, but in not central to that episode/scene/film. Wolverine could have not appeared in that last panel and had dialogue consisting of two panels that makes that book really qualify as anything more than a cameo in much the same way Brad Pitt was as the Vanisher. Comic book collectors and hobbyists would make this distinction for years. You can call it an appearance if you like but I still go by what people told me on the set...if you have nothing more than 3 lines...you are a cameo that could end up on the floor LOL...

  • Thank you! Contrarians gonna contrary, but you make great points! Ipsi Dixit!

Hulk 180 is his first but 181 has him on the cover....Classic cover sells the book.....Analysing why a book sells for a silly price never gets any real answers but in your article as usual all the reasoning is there, FOMO, conceived rarity, buzz among the community, spare money to burn, longer term hoarder, an investor, market manipulator, actual conceived worth of the book etc..It could just be a sweet spot comic..Where no explanation is needed.... .Many older books may well be desirable to a silver / golden age collector but many older long term dealers all have these books in usual poor grade in their private collections they are selling at their store or market stall at immense prices....Many have brittle paper, fading , loose rusty staples and you think to yourself how much longer that book will survive without expensive restoration in 10 years time...Maybe people don't follow these era comics any more in any real depth and just are not aware of the artists, story and their relevance anymore (This would be a real shame as i believe these books are loved)... .Many of these high price modern comics have better paper for long term investing and the reasoning of a future jackpot..If paper is used in the future !..Back issues already exist so there should be demand among the collecting community......Wish i had some real answers but i just collect what i want from all eras at reasonable price.. If any reach jackpot levels then that is great.................

• Kenloi
  
  The reason I asked is because this sale is starting to send ripples out there. People believe it is a sign of a bull market that comics are going to rise. People are already going all in on searching out the UF #4 variant. The scary thing is if we do not keep our heads a run occurs that could really decimate the hobby. COVID price speculations and entrance of novices has hurt because of the perception that comics have lost their value when in reality the only time a comic loses its value is when you buy and then sell it...until then nothing changes. That is the scary part though is the perceptions it creates.

Why does it have to make sense? Maybe manipulation. Maybe someone has a lot of money, really wanted the book for whatever of their personal reasons, this one was there and they shrugged their shoulders at the price. I do that all the time (albeit at a FAR FAR LOWER price range). One thing I will note, my comic sales were dead over the last 6 months. Worst I have seen in 5 years. Then they took off after the last 2 weeks. So might be something about the market shaking loose.

• Al
  
  The hobby has evolved. Gone are the days where one publication can say a book is rare and it is taken as the truth. We have to see how the market is going and report on it. We want to make sure people know what is happening to make informed decisions. I wrote that article to describe what I am finding out through my sources but this one was all over the place. Then I get your comment and from others around the globe...Your post says the last two weeks you seen sales. I will then look at numbers to see if the VOLUME of books is going up...That helps tell what is happening in the market. There may be an explanation. If it is manipulation or something nefarious I want to get peoples opinion too. Are they seeing more people dumping this book. Years ago I had a person tell me of a site that was writing how great a certain book was and yet people who knew this writer were telling me he was dumping his copies and NOT BUYING A SINGLE BOOK. That deserves to be researched too. People like you who sell books deserve the best information to make informed decisions. If you guys go out of business because of bad reporting it decreases the hobby in both sellers and participants. Why do you think I am out there asking questions and writing about sales or GoCollect does what it does...It is because of people like you...You deserve the best resources I can give you to make you better informed so you can navigate the hobby better. So keep the comments coming and I love what you said about the 2 weeks. May I ask where there any books that were moving more than others or a price range? LOL I cannot help myself I need info all the time LOL

FFA. First Full Appearance. The operative word being FULL. This is what constitutes his first full appearance: Interactions with other characters, Fighting sequences with other characters, conversations with other characters. #180 is nothing but 1 panel, you see who is coming up.

• I had to reread my article Birdman because I thought I put that in there..ugh it was omitted. Thank you for the catch and you are correct. It should have read full appearance...oh and that last panel reminded me of the old Adam West Burt Ward Batman with next week's villain appearing at the end of the episode LOL

Joseph, what exactly is a bull market ?... You say people are searching out books and paying ridiculous amounts of money.....Not bad for the owners of said books as long as the market isn't flooded all at once with sellers....Is that what you mean? Then that perhaps is bad and would or could reduce desirability or value of a book..Perhaps..As you can tell i don't sell many books , just keep an eye on the market but will trade occasionally for no monies...

Prices are rising and the buyers and sellers are confident of the market...Prices going up and no one cares because it is accepted....

Inflation is causing rapid increase on everything....That is surprising that people are ready to once again buy at high prices in the modern era....I have many of said examples, so that puts a smile on my face (Not selling though)...A worldwide recession could be brewing but people have spare money!...That to me indicates a different buyer to the market...One that could be trying to find outlets to offset their assets quickly....If they and others perhaps have confidence again in the comic market, then ok, could as you say produce a price war again....At present i sit on the wall about this.....Clever people are realising the drums worldwide are tapping !......Do we need to worry ?......Only people with excess money to burn ie: a minority........In the real world if comics are desirable again, then great....We are on the beginning of a rise upwards......A possible boom ?......The usual situation, marketplaces flooded with speculators......Hopefully they have learnt that slabbing anything is pointless, procede slowly, research, raws can be valuable, slab demand books, don't get greedy.....To the slab companies procede with caution and don't destroy the incoming situation....

Always bringing it.. Raws sometimes are the best! That is why I did the grading experiment. Hot books this week that are purchased and sent to be graded are worthless a day after they come back because the market has shifted. The reason that I write some of my articles is because I do not think the hobby is growing at a large rate. Instead what is happening is a shifting in tastes and that is why I research and try to figure out where it is heading. Years ago when Marvel was booming with comics and the MCU people out there were quietly shifting to DC books. There were sales that just stood out...Then you go out and actually talk to consumers and find out they why's behind the numbers. Every editor I have worked with here is all about the research and getting more. Why do you think they have these comment sections; because people like you have opinions and they matter. If you have it I wonder how many others share it. That "feeling" moves markets and shifts the money. That is important to know so keep it coming my friend out there in the comic world!!!

It's a outlier that's all it is. Every so often we see one of these asinine purchases and we all scratch our heads. If the person who purchased this decides to sell it one day he will be lucky to get 1k for it.

Jon

I hope so but a lot of people reached to me and said it has validity because it is a rare comic. I am worried that more than an outlier there may be something bad at play here. Sites that try to get people all in on certain books is bad for the hobby long term viability. Friend told me as a member of the hobby our job is to leave it better than we found it or else people will just abandon it....If more outlier sales likes this occur could be bad...I wonder again is there a site that is praising this book as a "cannot miss" investment?

Terrible article in which the author offers nothing in the way of answers to the title of the piece...this was a,great purchase and this book will continue to skyrocket or it won't....who cares because the owner paid not you....this article sounds like it was written by a golden/silver age biased collector.

• Eugene
  I bet you're the unlucky guy who purchased this book and I.P Freeley is your ride or die.

  • Nope don't own it...wish I did because it'll be 30 000 before you know.

    • Eugene
      
      I watch many a client bid on things because they believe it will be a hit only because others were buying it. That is by the definition FOMO. I asked for reasons because in my analysis so many other books were better. The answer for me seemed to fall on ignorance because I dont see the investment opportunity except someone believing they are getting in on the ground floor and do not want to experience FOMO. It could also be a sign of manipulation though if books start to creep out. I wrote an article about a baseball card collection where it was reported by others that the the auction house told the seller to let it out gradually or the cards would lose value because it would decrease the rarity of the items. Then I mentioned how investors were hoarding Ultimate Fallout #4 hoping for a big payday. Miles 1st has gone down since because all the books that were being sent in to be graded. This article was a caution flag for people to be aware of the sale and factors on the book. Readers then can draw their own conclusions but for me it was a major red flag of caution for either uninformed investor, FOMO, or manipulation. There were other great opportunities and this one seemed highly speculative at best.

• Eugene
  
  Sadly it was not written by someone with a biased. Many times I look for outliers in my profession because if land that is worth $75K is now receiving offers for $150k I want to know why. The variables I looked at were if this book was key and it was not. Was it important to most collectors and it was not. Then why the sale at this price. The only reason I can get at from people is that it is rare but that again is not a good reason so I asked people. Most are saying the only reason that it got this much in a bid was because the person could do it. I deal with clients all the time that can buy things with cash that others have to finance. Imagine seeing a comic that others dream and they go ok I want it and price is no object and they mean it LOL. Once watched as another buyers agent went to auction with a client and bid on a high grade Spiderman book and the person did not know comics at all. Person left and was creasing the book looking at it. That is why we asked and that appears to be the answer. Person wanted it either because they could buy it or someone thought it was a good investment but maybe overpaid. That is what it appears happened here.

There's less than 100...its spider-man....its a fantastic artist...its during a time when very few people were collecting spider-man or comics in general...it looks amazing and is an iconic cover...and it's spidey.....all boxes checked ready for blastoffff.

• IP Freeley
  
  It's rare but so are other books. It has Spiderman but so too do so many books. It has great art but not someone that is an icon and has withstood the test of time. Many artists were hot and then are not in the history of comic books. I believe years from now this will be a purchase that the person only hopes to recoup their purchase price.

I spend a more time with the big 3 auction houses then I probably should.
Christie’s,Sotheby’s, Heritage Auctions ( not including Beijing Poly International because I have never bought a comic book from them, or even heard of anyone who had) and because I said so *sticks out tongue*
But I have seen time and time again , "ego purchases" of the mega wealthy who are not going to let so in so out bid them, no matter what . it is my hallucination and statistically the highest probability that this is in fact the case.
nefarious marker manipulation? perhaps?
But I believe it is much more probable that someone with more money then I.Q points exacerbated by high quantities of *favorite alcoholic beverage* woke up the next day with a hangover and a small case of buyers remorse IMHO

Arak

And that is just as bad as manipulation. uneducated buyers making purchases like this create FOMO. He may wake up with buyers remorse but someone out there is thinking to rush in and get that book because it is going up. I have seen many live auctions where you watch the egos at play and then the dejection after WINNING LOL. That is why I love posts like yours that let others know what we are thinking.

• Joseph,
  I completely agree with you that the results are just as bad , and as you say we can take some comfort in the fact that pride and ignorance are the motivators in lieu of evil and malicious intent. and again as you say, perhaps by bringing attention to these we can keep said FOMO at a minimum :)
  

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